tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post114832147589085838..comments2023-09-22T12:40:26.587-04:00Comments on Da'as Hedyot: The Torah ResponseThe Hedyothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1151443012692938122006-06-27T17:16:00.000-04:002006-06-27T17:16:00.000-04:00Yes, I realize whom this specific incident is abou...Yes, I realize whom this specific incident is about but it seemed that this blog post and many others also speak about the problem of abuse in general. And to that fact I am asking why more names are not publicized.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1151370908177211762006-06-26T21:15:00.000-04:002006-06-26T21:15:00.000-04:00Thought it was obvious who we are referring to. Se...Thought it was obvious who we are referring to. See <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/laxg2" REL="nofollow">this article</A> in case you don't know.The Hedyothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1151363127061671672006-06-26T19:05:00.000-04:002006-06-26T19:05:00.000-04:00After reading this posting and many of the replies...After reading this posting and many of the replies one thing keeps hitting me smack in the face. There are so many stories about "a CERTAIN RY" or "this one rebbi". We all know that it is assur to go telling stories about people, but when there is a clear or maybe even implied danger to people (read: our children) why is there such an effort to keep names out of it? Isn't it a mitzvah to name names for the safety of others? Even Hedyot made reference to "U'biarta HaRA Mi'Kirbecha". How can that be done when most of us have no idea where that 'ra' is? If we are serious about getting this 'ra' out of our midst shouldn't the identities of the perps be known and screw their positions and mizrach vont seats?<BR/>thoughts?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148950482201502992006-05-29T20:54:00.000-04:002006-05-29T20:54:00.000-04:00Your point reminds me of my own experience.I know ...Your point reminds me of my own experience.<BR/>I know a (Chasidishe) Rosh Yeshiva who on the pretext of Mussar will have bocher tell him exactly all his sexual fantasies and will then spank him on his naked bottom.<BR/>He actually does that to married talmidim too. <BR/>No, I didn't learn in that Yeshiva but I spoke to a very Temmisdiger Yungerman who experienced it first hand, he wasn't at all convinced that there is anything wrong with it.<BR/>He also claimed that the Rosh Yeshiva will touch put his hands under his undergarments on the pretext that he can check if he has a passionate (sexual passion) nature so that he can give him guidance.<BR/><BR/>Another Talmid who was troubled by all this went to a different Rosh Yeshiva who is probably one of the most Frumie guy you can imagine, and he told him his stories. The Rosh Yeshiva simply told him not to be concerned about it, I dont remember the exact words but he very clearly implied that there is nothing to worry about and nothing need be done.<BR/><BR/>Now to be sure, at the time I got this firsthand information (which was the same time these events were taking place on a steady basis) these Talmidim were over 18 and not even living in the same town as this RY. (they were actually all married) but they told me that he did it to them as young bochurim too.<BR/><BR/>To my knowledge nothing was ever done to this RY.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148491751433693392006-05-24T13:29:00.000-04:002006-05-24T13:29:00.000-04:00Thank you for writing a much-needed critique of th...Thank you for writing a much-needed critique of the bad habits of the frum world. Well done.The Jewish Freakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00959225860182589944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148454033201939492006-05-24T03:00:00.000-04:002006-05-24T03:00:00.000-04:00How ironic! I wrote to someone this morning that I...How ironic! I wrote to someone this morning that I left a couple posts off the roundup (thinking of this and another). Got busy with Canonist and the life, forgot about it... then came back a minute ago to add this to what's going in tonight's. Finally, I figured I'll check out the comments, and... voila!<BR/><BR/>In the future, you can always e-mail me a link if you think it's worth sticking in. Sometimes I don't, usually I do. And it helps me, simply because I forget where I've gone and where I wanted to go...Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148360057415522152006-05-23T00:54:00.000-04:002006-05-23T00:54:00.000-04:00SephardiLady - thanks for the compliment. Your pos...SephardiLady - thanks for the compliment. Your post on the topic was one of the best.<BR/><BR/>Ezzie - no mention on your daily roundup? I hate that I'm sometimes such a self-promoter (around once a month), but my ego cries out for stroking!The Hedyothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148354314661527342006-05-22T23:18:00.000-04:002006-05-22T23:18:00.000-04:00Heh - I barely have time to keep up with my own po...Heh - I barely have time to keep up with my own posts. But I will try to do so in the near future.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148343834279738222006-05-22T20:23:00.000-04:002006-05-22T20:23:00.000-04:00One of the best posts out there. I think you unde...One of the best posts out there. I think you underscore the very important point that this problem is as much our problem as it is the problem of every other society since this type of mental perversion crosses all boundaries. <BR/><BR/>To the poster that pointed to the Jewish Renewal problem, I would just like to say that while misery loves company, I think it is wise to let the Renewal people and the Catholic Church and the xyz community and the abc community clean out their own closets while we worry about cleaning out our closet (the closet that our children are in!). <BR/><BR/>Let's not distract ourselves with the fact that others have problems too. I'm well aware that other communities have drug problems, but I'm concerned about the drug problems in my local community most. I realize other people have financial issues. But, I'm concerned about the financial issues in my community most. I realize other people have shalom bayit issues, but I'm concerned about the factors that contribute to shalom bayit issues in my community most. Distraction doesn't solve problems.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148331968026083362006-05-22T17:06:00.000-04:002006-05-22T17:06:00.000-04:00Did I say that it is unique to the frum world? I d...Did I say that it is unique to the frum world? I don't recall doing so. What I said is that it is prevalent and widespread. Sure, coverups happen all over, but IMHO, the degree and frequency to which they occur in frum commnunities is far worse. AFAIK, the factors that make it prevalent in the Orthodox world, such as chillul hashem, loshon hara, shidduch issues, shandeh stigma, fear of discussing sexual topics, are not common in general society, and contribute to the reaction being more common.<BR/><BR/>In any case, this side debate is irrelevant to the main important issue. Whether unique or not, more common or less, it is happening, and needs to be addresed. Can't we just stay focused on that?The Hedyothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148331289880009912006-05-22T16:54:00.000-04:002006-05-22T16:54:00.000-04:00Sorry about the double-post above. Us Orthos just...Sorry about the double-post above. Us Orthos just can't get the hang of using the internet, you know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148331160749723812006-05-22T16:52:00.000-04:002006-05-22T16:52:00.000-04:00I'll admit I view the frum world as unique & speci...I'll admit I view the frum world as unique & special, but I'm not so delusional as to think that abuse doesn't exist. I have a selfish interest in media focus on abuse cases in the Orthodox community - shining the light on it makes my world safer for my kids. What bugs me though, is when (on this & other blogs) people treat the cover-up (or even the perversity itself, which I know you did not do) as inherent to the unique aspects of the frum world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148330851715417002006-05-22T16:47:00.000-04:002006-05-22T16:47:00.000-04:00Although I must admit that I do think the frum wor...Although I must admit that I do think the frum world is unique & special, I'm not so delusional to think that abuse doesn't exist, or isn't covered up. And I'd actually like to see more media coverage of the abuse in the frum world so that the frum world will be a safer place for my own children. <BR/><BR/>I just don't like the insinuation (on this & other blogs) that this is an inherent problem due to the nature of the Orthodox community. It's an inherent problem in every community, and no community should think it is immune.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148330334438346902006-05-22T16:38:00.000-04:002006-05-22T16:38:00.000-04:00I didn't say it isn't true. It's just that that's ...I didn't say it isn't true. It's just that that's always the response any time someone points out a flaw in the frum community: "But they do it too!"<BR/><BR/>And it's one of the most commonly heard defenses at CC.<BR/><BR/>Like I've often said, it's funny how the frum world loves to view itself as unique and special, better than other societies, but as soon as problems are shown in their world, then they claim to be just like everyone else!The Hedyothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148330026598095762006-05-22T16:33:00.000-04:002006-05-22T16:33:00.000-04:00Just because it's the requisite comment, doesn't m...Just because it's the requisite comment, doesn't mean it's not true. <BR/><BR/>What was done in all these cases is horrible. But to say that the cover-up instinct is uniquely Orthodox, is false. The cover-up is wrong, and those doing it are culpable whether they are Orthodox, Reform, secular, Gentile. If it makes you happy to think I'm from Cross Currents, go ahead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148328840731897002006-05-22T16:14:00.000-04:002006-05-22T16:14:00.000-04:00Ezzie - catch up on past posts. You might find som...Ezzie - catch up on past posts. You might find something worthwhile.The Hedyothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148328726468594982006-05-22T16:12:00.000-04:002006-05-22T16:12:00.000-04:00> I don't think that the cover-up instinct is uniq...<I>> I don't think that the cover-up instinct is unique to the Orthodox.</I><BR/><BR/>Ah, yes. The requisite, "They do it too! We're not the only bad ones. Don't single us out!" comment. <BR/><BR/>Are you from Cross Currents?The Hedyothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148328575964861532006-05-22T16:09:00.000-04:002006-05-22T16:09:00.000-04:00Very good post. Though I've seen you on GH and men...Very good post. Though I've seen you on GH and mentioned elsewhere, I don't believe I've ever been here before... your post below this is also very well-written and interesting.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148328466989508572006-05-22T16:07:00.000-04:002006-05-22T16:07:00.000-04:00I don't think that the cover-up instinct is unique...I don't think that the cover-up instinct is unique to the Orthodox. Just look at the Winiarz/Gafni affair and how the Jewish Renewal people were and still are in denial because "Rabbi Gafni is such a charismatic person, and brought so many people to Judaism." Look at all the supportive comments from Renewal people at http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3252738,00.html. Everey denomination has their gedolim, and every denomination has their blind followers who will support them no matter what.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-1148322554461354722006-05-22T14:29:00.000-04:002006-05-22T14:29:00.000-04:00Claiming that the yeshivas are moving to fix it as...Claiming that the yeshivas are moving to fix it assumes that the yeshivas are capable of successfully executing a complex policy. That's a stretch, consider that they're basically babysitting services with gemaras--and they're barely competent at that. When was the last time the yeshivas successfully dealt with ANY challenge? 'Scuse me, there was that time they kicked Yankel out of the fifth grade. But other than that one time?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com