tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post4277302374516202567..comments2023-09-22T12:40:26.587-04:00Comments on Da'as Hedyot: Better Know a Kofer - Little FoxlingThe Hedyothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comBlogger78125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-28212231669633168812009-08-26T22:17:41.827-04:002009-08-26T22:17:41.827-04:00Hey, I enjoyed your post but there's just one ...Hey, I enjoyed your post but there's just one thing I would like to point out. You call the humanities "crap." I can't tell if you intend for the reader to understand that you continue to believe this, or if this is one of the beliefs that you left behind. But the humanities changed your life! The documentary hypothesis probably would not have been possible without the development of modern literary analysis ("literature" was not a university subject until the 19th/20th centuries, when the DH took shape), plus archaeology and the entire field of religious studies which have shaken our world fall under this category of "crap." Your story is just one example of how they actually matter! The humanities today (this includes religious studies but not theology) incorporate some of the core methodologies of the sciences in order to help us wade through bullshit and better understand what is put in front of us.vashtynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-62977826973902868452009-05-27T06:34:40.637-04:002009-05-27T06:34:40.637-04:00> See, no one even notices my total refutation ...> See, no one even notices my total refutation of DH. Because atheism has nothing to do with DH. It's penis based.<br /><br />It's penitheism!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-26634686099621667172009-05-20T16:57:12.014-04:002009-05-20T16:57:12.014-04:00http://holyhyrax.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassuto-ques...http://holyhyrax.blogspot.com/2009/05/cassuto-question.html<br /><br />and my response:<br /><br />http://www.haloscan.com/comments/holyhyrax/2823830204580552342/#44985littlefoxlingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-63370015198011176322009-05-20T11:16:17.082-04:002009-05-20T11:16:17.082-04:00LF -
You wrote, "I began to read the apologists. ...LF - <br />You wrote, <I>"I began to read the apologists. Cassuto, Hoffman, David Gottlieb, Breuer. I was mortified once again. They were all complete crap."</I><BR><BR>Could you please amplify on Cassuto's deficiencies?<br /><br />Many thanksYBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-17045902861668260652009-05-18T06:38:00.000-04:002009-05-18T06:38:00.000-04:00tuviah
myth... legend.... what's there to make yo...tuviah<br /><br />myth... legend.... what's there to make you sick? it's just that you are going into it expecting history.<br /><br />there are a lot worse things in the Torah to make you sick, some of them which are actually practiced. <br /><br />So there are some parts of the Torah that speak to you? Isaiah? Genesis 1? Nothing wrong with that. What's wrong with sticking with those and discarding the rest?kisaritahttp://www.kisarita.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-85984175367687710092009-05-16T23:29:00.000-04:002009-05-16T23:29:00.000-04:00wait...esther scroll not at Qumran...
tuviahwait...esther scroll not at Qumran...<br /><br />tuviahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-64878880189982954232009-05-16T23:02:00.000-04:002009-05-16T23:02:00.000-04:00ok I read it.
Look, BH, I am in many ways on your...ok I read it.<br /><br />Look, BH, I am in many ways on your side. I can't figure out the Torah. I can't square the circle.<br /><br />I do think it is interesting that you have chosen to (probably) have a family and all that.<br /><br />I personally find the idea of having children more scary once I find it seems that life may have no purpose.<br /><br />That is off topic however.<br /><br />What I really have to say is: you're being very logical. I am totally myself confused and embarrassed by Torah stories. I want to run whenever I hear about people living to be 900 years old, or that Noah and his kids repopulated the whole world during the Bronze Age.<br /><br />Weirdly, sometimes I accept a Torah view -- or maybe the best way to describe it is I sometimes have trouble with one thing, and stop worrying about another thing. That is pretty weird.<br /><br />But clearly it does not sit well with me. I used to think Jews were not like Catholics or other moronic story tellers. Little did I know we have our own stories that make a "modern" person feel like a jerk for being asked to believe.<br /><br />On the other hand, my Torah worries definitely "move around" which I think is interesting. It's like a neurotic fixation that travels from one bodily imperfection to another...<br /><br />Also, I have had good times with orthodox jews. certainly the conversation is more interesting, warmer at times, on topics that are real issues for people.<br /><br />Also, I do think Breishis is weirdly close to evolution, and that the creation of the universe is there -- just like science says and has said for only about fifty years.<br /><br />I have always been intrigued with Isaiah -- full of prophecy that describes Jewish history.<br /><br />And I thought that whole Purim tale about the ten hangings and the hangings of the Nazis after Nuremberg was interesting.<br /><br />I think Megillah Esther and Isaiah were the only complete manuscripts in the Qumran Caves (the Dead Sea Scrolls). Roll scary music....<br /><br />Otherwise I am creeped out sometimes....like you I believe in Hashem though.<br /><br />What do you make of a James Kugel -- OJ and a DH writer?<br />Or, there is a guy at Cal Tech -- Barry Simon -- the IBM professor of Math there (pretty smart guy I bet) who is a serious b'al t'chuvah?<br /><br />I don't have answers obviously. I don't like what the Torah asks of me. I still sometimes think there is "something" to it.<br /><br />More than that -- I just can't be glib about it all. I keep searching.<br /><br />keep challenging them BH -- find a way.<br /><br />Tuviah SAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-55416137248744125532009-05-16T21:31:00.000-04:002009-05-16T21:31:00.000-04:00>i still think what really gauls people about J...>i still think what really gauls people about Judaism is how hard it is...this book is fine, but no more or less helpful than other critical pieces on the Torah. <br /><br />Tuvia, check this out - http://baalhabos.blogspot.com/2007/10/golden-handcuffs.htmlBaal Haboshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12861222390091673835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-68865549906218423092009-05-16T17:01:00.000-04:002009-05-16T17:01:00.000-04:00this is the link to the Driver book -- i still thi...this is the link to the Driver book -- i still think what really gauls people about Judaism is how hard it is...this book is fine, but no more or less helpful than other critical pieces on the Torah. <br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?id=CwUXAAAAYAAJ&dq=introduction+to+the+literature+of+the+old+testament&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=05FrDb7clc&sig=7fHgvmF0-7A4zwfGCdtK9pnqPKw&hl=en&ei=_igPSsDbAaPFtgf7oJClDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2<br /><br />on the upper right there should be a link to click to download it.<br /><br />tuviah sAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-23463609238849126702009-05-15T16:50:00.000-04:002009-05-15T16:50:00.000-04:00Tuviah-
Can you provide the link for the free? PDF...Tuviah-<br />Can you provide the link for the free? PDF for the Driver book?<br /><br />LF- My story parallels yours. Well written, painfully experienced.smoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540322073693784985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-81613875412896396162009-05-15T15:06:00.000-04:002009-05-15T15:06:00.000-04:00"Am I missing something "Atheism is penis based??...."Am I missing something "Atheism is penis based??...I am a monogomous married woman. How does my atheism have anything to do with penises??"<br /><br />Perhaps he means it was BASED (i.e. historically) on "penises," so to speak, not that it PERPETUATES for that reason. (Well, maybe some of the time it does.)defenestrationnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-46247981468265151782009-05-15T09:38:00.000-04:002009-05-15T09:38:00.000-04:00i think practice and belief are separate too -- I ...i think practice and belief are separate too -- I think belief can wax and wane and mutate. Who we are changes as we age -- it is pretty amazing to even watch myself change as I get older...<br /><br />I Googled the book LF said changed his view -- An Introduction to the Literature of the Old Testament -- and have downloaded it (it's free as a pdf).<br /><br />I look forward to reading it. One thing I have already noticed is the author states without qualification that he (seems) to see divine inspiration in the Old Testament (he actually is looking at the "Hexateuch" so he seems interested in studying more than the first five books).<br /><br />But isn't that weird? He makes it clear that behind it is divine inspiration. LF came away shaken to his core. I wonder sometimes if any of us read the same thing the same way, or use words (like "belief") to mean the same thing.<br /><br />Shabbos,<br /><br />TuviahTuviahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-71152945669838004152009-05-15T07:40:00.000-04:002009-05-15T07:40:00.000-04:00Tuvia you are confusing between belief and practic...Tuvia you are confusing between belief and practice. Foxling himself distinguishes between the two. He still practices.DZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-56253459100125221752009-05-15T06:11:00.000-04:002009-05-15T06:11:00.000-04:00Slightly OT:
In my experience (which is just that...Slightly OT:<br /><br />In my experience (which is just that: my experience, not a scientific study) the more strict a person's background, the less likely he is to retain a positive connection to religion once he goes off. And the more likely he is too attribute his antipathy to "rationalism."superchicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-18529777607947054542009-05-14T23:28:00.000-04:002009-05-14T23:28:00.000-04:00thanks LF for letting me click "anon" and I will a...thanks LF for letting me click "anon" and I will add a name at the end.<br /><br />I am not orthodox, but have orthodox family. <br /><br />I think it is for sure common for people to walk away from orthodoxy, and judaism -- as it is "not true."<br /><br />I am sometimes surprised that the same people -- especially the avowed athiests -- seek to have marriages and children; in short, seek to fulfill cultural imperatives which are also provably "false."<br /><br />I think also interesting is the phenomenon of say a James Kugel, the biblical scholar, who is orthodox and believes DH makes perfect sense.<br /><br />I think Prof Neusner at Bard is also observant, though I might be wrong on him.<br /><br />Finally-- I don't really understand such an all or nothing approach. Did you really believe that after careful consideration there would be no alternative but to consider OJ ultimately "true"?<br /><br />I am NOT OJ, but I find the big bang -- a ball of light exploding outside of a time that could not exist before the ball of light came in to being and exploded -- although firmly scientific, also kind of amazing beyond words.<br /><br />I'm not saying this proves a creator -- but we are all just lightbeams. Isn't that telling? Is modern scientific logic the ONLY kind that satisfies these jarring truths? Just try to put your arms around a 15 billion year old universe. Eesh, what a marvel it all is.<br /><br />so is oj true? I just don't think you are really interested at this time in asking the questions that would lead you back to a very confining religion.<br /><br />but i would be interested: if you think oj is flimsy, aren't monogamous marriages even MORE ridiculous? why do we care so much about having children? if it is just evolutionary biology --- hell, we're smart enough to sneer at that too? aren't we?Tuvia Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-27796967629429452262009-05-14T21:08:00.000-04:002009-05-14T21:08:00.000-04:00Jewish Philosopher,
Am I missing something "Atheis...Jewish Philosopher,<br />Am I missing something "Atheism is penis based"??<br /><br />I have no penis. I am a monogomous married woman. How does my atheism have anything to do with penises??TikunOlamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05640691410118934075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-13972466164373762002009-05-14T10:00:00.000-04:002009-05-14T10:00:00.000-04:00>See, no one even notices my total refutation o...>See, no one even notices my total refutation of DH. Because atheism has nothing to do with DH. It's penis based.<br /><br />It is precisely this kind of flawed logic, which makes me feel that I do not need to read it to disregard it.Penhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17895596986880085446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-46079257003923652892009-05-14T09:13:00.000-04:002009-05-14T09:13:00.000-04:00See, no one even notices my total refutation of DH...See, no one even notices my total refutation of DH. Because atheism has nothing to do with DH. It's penis based.jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-54959588193648906412009-05-14T09:04:00.000-04:002009-05-14T09:04:00.000-04:00Both my memoir and my blog are now at the point of...Both my memoir and my blog are now at the point of describing and discussing how my fascination (infatuation?) with OJ crumbled. I know that blog readers, even yeshivish types, generally have little patience for book-length electronic confessions. Little Foxling had his say in four installments, but my explanation will continue twice a week for another two years. Like a Wagner opera that never ends until everything sinks back into the Rhine where it began. I refuse to believe anybody who says his trip was all intellectual, or all emotional. We are complex beings, as much as we have been told we are not. <br /><br />Take another look.Genehttp://memoir-guide.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-76840381452093981322009-05-14T04:13:00.000-04:002009-05-14T04:13:00.000-04:00who says they all failed? not in new york city the...who says they all failed? not in new york city they didn't, the shuls are bursting at the seamssuperchicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-59329096287313686872009-05-13T23:27:00.000-04:002009-05-13T23:27:00.000-04:00Why are CJ and RJ the side of truth?Why are CJ and RJ the side of truth?E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-88213371428090382482009-05-13T17:57:00.000-04:002009-05-13T17:57:00.000-04:00LF: I think you are right. OTOH, as we have discu...LF: <I>I think you are right. OTOH, as we have discussed, I think JTS and CJ have some serious challenges of their own. They have failed to inspire their youth and they are losing people fast.</I>I think that's right. Solving that is the challenge facing CJ. Resolving all the problems you noted is the challenge facing Orthodoxy. Both are hard. But if you assume that (1) some version of Judaism is worth preserving, and (2) you need to be on the side of the truth, you are left with CJ and RJ. So I'd rather be in the right place and try to solve the problems.Brucehttp://www.threejews.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-38858370005733957472009-05-13T16:38:00.000-04:002009-05-13T16:38:00.000-04:00There's Christianity and Islam.There's Christianity and Islam.jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-76900744013472173232009-05-13T16:18:00.000-04:002009-05-13T16:18:00.000-04:00LF,
"Haskalah, Reform, CJ, recon, Jewish renewal, ...LF,<br />"Haskalah, Reform, CJ, recon, Jewish renewal, XGH all tried this. All failed."<br /><br />Can't speak for XGH or Jewish renewal [not sure what that that is], but I believe that the philosophies of the other groups you mentioned were different then the approach I described. E.g., recons deny the existence of a deity as traditionally thought of, Haskala was mainly about adding secular studies to Jewish education, reform doesn't believe in mitzvos. CJ I dealt with in my last post. <br /><br />So I do still hold out hope.Moshenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-82495908776038155802009-05-13T16:02:00.000-04:002009-05-13T16:02:00.000-04:00By the way, I agree being an atheist has nothing t...By the way, I agree being an atheist has nothing to do with sex. It's like the erotic classified ads in Craig's List. They have nothing to do with prostitution. Why would anyone think that?jewish philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987540457195983665noreply@blogger.com