tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post6138601531738119583..comments2023-09-22T12:40:26.587-04:00Comments on Da'as Hedyot: Better Know a Kofer - ElishevaThe Hedyothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-82925626579270117182009-06-21T18:27:25.242-04:002009-06-21T18:27:25.242-04:00Elisheva,
I've come upon this interview a mon...Elisheva,<br /><br />I've come upon this interview a month after its comment section went silent, so you may not see this--but, from one ex-Orthodox person in the healing professions to another, I want to commend you on your gracious spirit. I'm sure that many of your clients/patients appreciate it and benefit from it.<br /><br />I wish you continued good living.<br /><br />AgnosticWriterAgnosticWriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03904614932394962946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-4300143293925248682009-05-21T11:16:18.949-04:002009-05-21T11:16:18.949-04:00"Elisheva: People do not decide to be gay"
This i..."Elisheva: People do not decide to be gay"<br /><br />This implies that a person cannot be swayed one way or the other, as if everyone is squarely in one camp or the other. This is patently false, since many are on the fence and can be swayed.<br /><br />Uggh, I feel I just hijacked the thread. Sorry 'bout that.defenestrationnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-69955347306424691712009-05-18T17:22:00.000-04:002009-05-18T17:22:00.000-04:00Miriam,
Having my children decide to become OJ lat...Miriam,<br />Having my children decide to become OJ later in life is not my best case scenario either. <br /><br />Honesty is very freeing, even if for a time period, there is some conflict and discomfort. Good luck. <br /><br />If you need any moral support, write me through Hedyot - I am sure he would pass along the email.Elishevanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-24270958332330059382009-05-16T01:32:00.000-04:002009-05-16T01:32:00.000-04:00Also, in comment to the question posed to you abou...Also, in comment to the question posed to you about what you would do if your child decided to become OJ and study in a yeshiva, I have to say that my son deciding to become ultra-Orthodox is probably a bigger fear for me at this point than other possible outcomes (I have some time...he is only 8 months old:) I think I would fear estrangement from him. I would want him to feel fully comfortable in our home.Miriamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18409262703978144368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-25291453375788101632009-05-16T01:28:00.000-04:002009-05-16T01:28:00.000-04:00This was a wonderfully inspiring read. Elisheva, ...This was a wonderfully inspiring read. Elisheva, I appreciate how you have taken the time to respond to many of the commentators on your story. I was able to relate to much of it and look forward to being able to be fully honest with my parents and family. I think this aspect has been the most difficult for us (my husband and I).Miriamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18409262703978144368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-3189917649854838022009-05-08T16:40:00.000-04:002009-05-08T16:40:00.000-04:00J: How would you accept your Son if when he is li...J: How would you accept your Son if when he is like 23 years old and decided that he wants to live alternative life style and he wants to live as a women and have a sex change, and become a transvestite?<br /><br />Elisheva: There is a difference between being a transexual and being a transvestite. The first means to physically change your body via hormones and surgery to look like and function as the other sex, the second is to dress as a member of the opposite sex but retain your sexual identity.<br /><br />If my son wanted to undergo a sex operation I would be concerned because I am very familiar with the research in this area (because of the professional field that I am in). Most transexuals have mental health problems and often regret it once they change to the other sex and they find it did not solve the problem in the first place. They also have a high risk for suicide and other self injurious behaviors. <br /><br />If my son wanted to dress as a woman I would think it odd because it is different than what I am accustomed to.<br /><br />Either way, I would love and support my child. Neither of these things would make him a bad person in my eyes or interefere with my unconditional love and acceptance for him.<br /><br />J: Or if you daughter decided to become a lesbian and marry another women?<br /><br />Elisheva: People do not decide to be gay. I would have no problem with my child being gay and would fully welcome her spouse 1000%. I would have no problem or concern if they wanted to have children and would hope they would (because I want grandchildren one day). We have close gay friends with children. In fact, one of my son's closest friends has 4 moms (his moms split up and are both repartnered). I am actually glad that my children are exposed to a least a little diversity in our otherwise very heterosexual, married with children, white, Jewish community.<br /><br />J: Or if your son decoded to go to Yeshiva and stop eating at your house because he feels your kitchen is not kosher enough?<br /><br />Elisheva: I would accomodate him like I do the rest of my family. But I wouldn't pay his yeshiva tuition any more than I would foot the bill if my child wanted to join a nunery.Elishevanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-54217194189872744612009-05-08T16:27:00.000-04:002009-05-08T16:27:00.000-04:00Shalmo: What do you feel about all these religion...Shalmo: What do you feel about all these religions we have the world over? Do they serve any purpose or in your ideal world would it be better if all religion was wiped out? <br /><br />I think all religions more or less have served similar purposes over the history of human kind and differed based of the needs of different tribes and peoples across cultures and nations. They were meant as an organizing force, toward creating civilized societies. I think that if one believes that their belief system was directly dictated by a divine figure and cannot be altered or updated or adapted, it could be dangerous because there is no room for adapting to new notions, information, ideas or to the changes in the world. So I guess I would argue that religious fundamentalists are potentially dangerous depending on their belief systems. Religious moderates, when they "tolerate" some of what the fundamentalists are doing in the name of "god" can be dangerous too.<br /><br />Shalmo:Also which is better in your eyes; a happy delusion or a painful truth? In the sense is it better for a person to be content in believing the world is 6000 years old, or having to live through the reality that evolution is fact and that there is no divine guide here letting us know what "purpose" is?<br /><br />Speaking of which, do you have an answer to the question on what is the meaning of life?<br /><br /><br />Better? I am not sure it is better, but I do think that happy delusions can give people some level of peace. Delusions by definition have a function, to help people cope with what they can't cope with.<br /><br />No, I have no answer to the meaning of life. If there is one, I don't expect to be the one to figure it out.Elishevanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-72238258211748435902009-05-08T14:47:00.000-04:002009-05-08T14:47:00.000-04:00"It may help open your mind (and heart) a little."..."It may help open your mind (and heart) a little." <br />My mind is open :)<br /><br />" Or not. The world is full of narrow bigots."<br /><br />That is so sad and I am aware of the hate and bigots.<br /><br />Laura, are you representing Elisheva today?<br />Cause if you are, the questions were not answered.<br /><br />Cheers-Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-25377662004203134432009-05-08T14:06:00.000-04:002009-05-08T14:06:00.000-04:00Defen, is that a question or statement?Defen, is that a question or statement?lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-91363385820066409002009-05-08T13:59:00.000-04:002009-05-08T13:59:00.000-04:00Because everyone who opposes gay sx is a narrow-mi...Because everyone who opposes gay sx is a narrow-minded bigot.defenestrationnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-71117148782360788932009-05-08T13:49:00.000-04:002009-05-08T13:49:00.000-04:00J, people don't generally *decide* to become lesbi...J, people don't generally *decide* to become lesbians. And though I can't speak for Elisheva, I'd like to believe that if her daughter or son is gay, she would be happy if they find a partner they love and want to spend the rest of their lives with. And as far as transgendered individuals go, the only *deciding* they do is whether to have a sex-change surgery or not and whether to come out or not. A person who feels trapped in the wrong sex does not *decide* to feel this way. Perhaps you should watch The Vagina Monologues performed by a cast of all-transgendered people. It may help open your mind (and heart) a little. Or not. The world is full of narrow bigots.lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-75259002415528430622009-05-08T12:44:00.000-04:002009-05-08T12:44:00.000-04:00To Elisheva,
How would you accept your Son if wh...To Elisheva,<br /><br /> How would you accept your Son if when he is like 23 years old and decided that he wants to live alternative life style and he wants to live as a women and have a sex change, and become a transvestite?<br /><br />Or if you daughter decided to become a lesbian and marry another women?<br /><br /> Or if your son decoded to go to Yeshiva and stop eating at your house because he feels your kitchen is not kosher enough?Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-72010023658758771762009-05-08T07:26:00.000-04:002009-05-08T07:26:00.000-04:00Elisheva I have a few questions of my own.
What d...Elisheva I have a few questions of my own.<br /><br />What do you feel about all these religions we have the world over? Do they serve any purpose or in your ideal world would it be better if all religion was wiped out? <br /><br />Also which is better in your eyes; a happy delusion or a painful truth? In the sense is it better for a person to be content in believing the world is 6000 years old, or having to live through the reality that evolution is fact and that there is no divine guide here letting us know what "purpose" is?<br /><br />Speaking of which, do you have an answer to the question on what is the meaning of life?Shalmonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-7114305405295994692009-05-07T10:03:00.000-04:002009-05-07T10:03:00.000-04:00Orthoprax,
I don't know any "girls" in their mid-t...Orthoprax,<br />I don't know any "girls" in their mid-twenties. I do some some women though ;) Truth is, I really don't, I am in my thirties and live in married with kidsville USA. Will keep my eyes open for you though. . .<br /><br />Might I suggest the Upper West Side or J-Date?<br /><br />Though if she is someone like me, she is ready to be out of the OJ world, not hook up with an "Orthoprax." You flexible with that too?Elishevanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-27591102311443339682009-05-07T01:12:00.000-04:002009-05-07T01:12:00.000-04:00Wow, great interview! It's particularly interestin...Wow, great interview! It's particularly interesting because it sounds like Elisheva and I share similar histories, but when I had that one slice of not kosher pizza at age 20 it sank like a lead weight in my stomach. I could hardly finish it. Seemingly here is where our paths differ.<br /><br />So, Elisheva, do you know any similarly-minded girls in their mid-20s? I could compromise with a CJ education for the kids. ;-)Orthopraxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649055168953784384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-17681036805648063282009-05-06T20:20:00.000-04:002009-05-06T20:20:00.000-04:00> had earned a Salutatorian spot in High School...> had earned a Salutatorian spot in High School for Judaic Studies based on my grades, my teachers chose to skip over me to the student ranked below me for this honor as they had concerns about my commitment to Yiddishkeit.<br /><br /><br />AHA! So you were slighted by your teachers and <I>that's</I> why you were angry at the establishment, so you left OJ.<br /><br />Just kidding. You lucky dog, you got out in time is right. Great interview.Baal Haboshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12861222390091673835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-25662578183203506702009-05-06T18:44:00.000-04:002009-05-06T18:44:00.000-04:00EJ, I generally like your comments, but this one i...EJ, I generally like your comments, but this one is so not cool.lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-66090396174437114332009-05-06T18:17:00.000-04:002009-05-06T18:17:00.000-04:00DH, you say in your comment box that those who go ...DH, you say in your comment box that those who go by Anonymous will be edited a name by you.<br /><br />I nominate "Acro-Lad" for this guy.Arinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-71459630355432939612009-05-06T18:11:00.000-04:002009-05-06T18:11:00.000-04:00http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/FTFYhttp://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/FTFYAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-75066035792123060972009-05-06T17:43:00.000-04:002009-05-06T17:43:00.000-04:00ej,
I understand that your comment was meant as a ...ej,<br />I understand that your comment was meant as a compliment and I appreciate it. However, I think that where I landed is one of many alternative lifestyles that are available and don't believe for one second that mine is *the* one to find. <br /><br />I don't want my journey to be in any way used to delegitamize the choices others have made which are equally viable, admirable and right for them.Elishevanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-77211092809313149462009-05-06T17:34:00.000-04:002009-05-06T17:34:00.000-04:00And what does FTFY stand for?And what does FTFY stand for?The Hedyothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-81530965951851327332009-05-06T17:33:00.000-04:002009-05-06T17:33:00.000-04:00Please do not comment as Anonymous! Choose a rando...Please do not comment as Anonymous! Choose a random name, please!The Hedyothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193083251783618457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-74441963164458502882009-05-06T17:30:00.000-04:002009-05-06T17:30:00.000-04:00"But sometimes I think that what you find on the i...<I>"But sometimes I think that what you find on the internet, where people don't feel pressured to be PC, more accurately reflects the true public sentiment than what you'll ever hear people saying <B>to outsiders</B> in real life."</I>FTFY.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-31734835096625913072009-05-06T17:16:00.000-04:002009-05-06T17:16:00.000-04:00Finding a supportive community where you are accep...Finding a supportive community where you are accepted, having the good sense to send your children to a Jewish day school and making for yourself a life that retains a significant Jewish component is for me an admirable outcome. I very much admire Elisheva and her choices. I think it a particularly happy way to resolve the problem of how to live upon leaving Orthodoxy.ejnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9839224.post-25329919342829194012009-05-06T16:59:00.000-04:002009-05-06T16:59:00.000-04:00Laura: My point, Elisheva, is that when you look u...Laura: My point, Elisheva, is that when you look up orthodox ideology on the internet, you will not always know how that ideology translates in reality.<br /><br />I am not relying on the internet to teach me about Orthodoxy. I was brought up Orthodox so I do know a thing or two at least about the MO world. And secondly, I have all OJs on both sides of my family. My brother, brother-in-law and father-in-law are all MO OJ rabbis actually and make themselves very available to me when I want to understand something. And as I mentioned, a number of my closest friends are OJ too. Believe me, I am not looking up OJ on the internet. I have way better sources of information. And I am still a frequent visitor into the OJ world.<br /><br />I agree with Hedyot on this one. I know one very outspoken blogger quite well offline. His opinions online are very real but would never be said in such an non-politically correct way or with such an arrogant tone as they are online with a pseudonym.<br /><br />You know the old saying (I am really paraphrasing here) that you know the truth about who someone really is "b'kaaso, b'kiso v'b'koso", well I think that could also be said of people "b'monikers/pseudonyms"Elishevanoreply@blogger.com